Appeals filed in response to San Martin mosque approval - Morgan Hill Times: San Martin

Appeals filed in response to San Martin mosque approval

Opponents want groundwater studies; Islamic community asks for more space, 150 people capacity

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Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2012 5:22 pm

The builders of the proposed mosque in rural San Martin have appealed the approval of their own use permit, asking the Santa Clara County planning commission to allow overnight accomodations, to host events with nearly twice as many people than previously requested and to double the size of the proposed multi-purpose building.

In all, three parties filed an appeal in response to the Santa Clara County planning commission’s decision to approve the Cordoba Center use permit with conditions, according to county staff.

The San Martin Neighborhood Alliance, People’s Coalition for Government Accountability, and the developer of the proposed mosque and community center – the South Valley Islamic Community – each filed an appeal to the use permit and conditions Friday, according to county planner Bill Shoe.

The planning commission approved the Cordoba Center mosque, community center and cemetery at its regular meeting Aug. 2. Conditions attached to the permit include that the developer conduct more tests on the soil percolation rates on the property (which have already been completed), as well as the prohibition of commercial food and beverages and outdoor amplified music or broadcasting.

Situated on a 15-acre property just north of the intersection of Monterey Road and California Avenue, the proposal includes two ranch-style structures – a prayer hall and a multi-purpose building – as well as a cemetery and open space.

SVIC spokesman Hamdy Abbass said the developer’s reason for the appeal was to allow more than four holiday or special events per year that can accommodate up to 150 people, and to allow the property to employ around-the-clock security personnel.

The permit approved unanimously by the planning commission only allows up to four annual events of 80 people at the proposed Cordoba Center, and prohibits overnight accommodations. The SVIC said in its appeal letter that these conditions place “undue restrictions” on the developer, they were “not based on any factual data,” and are “contrary to the applicant’s original intent for the use of this religious facility.”

Instead, the SVIC wants to allow up to 150 people on the site on “any given day,” the appeal letter says.

“I’ve never heard of a church that (is restricted) to a limited time to open for festivities or holidays,” Abbass said.

Abbass added that the original traffic and septic system studies of the site support such a regular crowd.

Plus, allowing limited overnight accommodations would allow the Cordoba Center to employ security staff, which Abbass said is “essential” for the site.

Furthermore, the SVIC wants to modify its site plans to increase the size of the multi-purpose building from 2,800 square feet as proposed in their initial plans, to 5,000 square feet. With the mosque/prayer hall next door, that would place two 5,000-square-foot buildings on the property.

The appeal by the SMNA, filed by San Martin resident Sylvia Hamilton, repeats concerns voiced in meetings and interviews before the planning commission’s approval of the Cordoba Center, and to which the county responded by conducting environmental and traffic studies that have already disputed the concerns.

“The proposed project fails to comply with the relevant county plans, policies and regulations regarding proposed development in San Martin and should not have been approved by the planning commission,” the SMNA’s appeal letter says.

The SMNA lists a number of policies and guidelines from the county general plan, zoning ordinance, San Martin Integrated Design Plan and South County Joint Area Plan that it says the proposal is not in compliance with.

The SMNA’s appeal indicates the group is not satisfied with studies and reports already conducted on the site by the county and consultants that show the Cordoba Center will not have a significant impact on groundwater and storm runoff, and the site is suitable for a septic system.

“We feel very strongly that the county has not done as thorough a job they need to do to be absolutely sure that neither the cemetery or the center will contaminate the ground water in any way,” Hamilton said.

Hamilton, 70, said as a long-time resident of San Martin, she has heard the concerns of the community over groundwater.

“I'm not opposed to the Muslims at all, or the mosque, it’s that we want them to be treated the same way other people are. I feel really badly because I know a lot of them feel like that it’s just prejudice, and I’m sure that a lot of people are, but that is not where I am coming from.”

The People’s Coalition for Government Accountability appeal, filed by Lucy Walsh, also repeats concerns it raised previously.

People’s Coalition for Government Accountability is an obscure entity that has distributed literature opposing the project that is only tangentially aligned with the historical record, and until filing its appeal has not listed any names or contact information for people associated with the group.

Concerns over the groundwater brought up by San Martin residents won’t evaporate anytime soon.

Marilyn Barrow, 71, has spend 68 years of her life in San Martin and is worried about the Cordoba Center for its impact on groundwater because of its proximity to Llagas Creek, especially now that the SVIC has petitioned for a building double the original project size.

“I knew this was coming. You go in for a small project because you get the approval, once you have approval for the small, how will the county say no to something bigger?” Barrow said.

“As a long-time San Martin resident, I don't have a problem with a mosque. People should be able to worship the way their religion demands they worship,” Barrow said. “But I do have a problem with water contamination. If we have bad water in a few years because of it, what are we going to do?”

Donna Brodsky, 62-year-old San Martin resident, had what she called a “knee-jerk reaction” to SVIC appealing the project and asking for a larger building.

“It leads me to believe they want more than they originally asked for which makes me think that was their intention to begin with,” Brodsky said.

But Brodsky is trying to move beyond the knee-jerk reactions she sees on both sides, and despite retaining some concerns with the project, she is hoping that Cordoba Center supporters and opponents can sit down and have intelligent, constructive conversations soon.

Brodsky recently met with Sal Akhter of SVIC, who she said became “very emotional” during their conversation.

“Meeting with him really put humanity to the whole issue,” she said.

Brodsky thinks there is a whole group of San Martin residents whose voices aren’t being heard over the “hot heads” on both sides of the debate.

“So many of us hate the rhetoric, the horrible rhetoric that you hear,” she said. “We know that there is a group out there who is concerned about their community, and by that, I mean land and water issues – not fear-based religious talk.”

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39 comments:

  • School Mom posted at 12:01 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

    School Mom Posts: 57

    By the way Dave, I have not made any comments in the Gilroy Dispatch, my comments have been directed to the Morgan Hill times exclusively. I called the Dispatch and asked if comments directed to the MH Times also showed in up the Dispatch, and was told they did not. I did not write a "rambling letter to the Dispatch", you have me mistaken for someone else. Perhaps you may want to curb your own alcohol consumption.

    Having gone through all of my comments concerning this topic, I am very clear on this; people need to follow the rules and laws. Having lived in San Martin for quite some time now, I know that has not been the case. My point is this: County Zoning needs follow the laws and so does the SVIC, instead of trying to bully this through.

    And no, I do not want more buildings, a cemetery, noise, and crowds in San Martin. The area has been wrecked enough by people who don't obey the laws or care about their land.

    Thinly veiled religious bigotry? I'm also opposed to the Catholic high school being proposed. We're all bigots Dave, and you are no exception. Now isn't that in inconvenient truth. You do not live in San Martin and you've got a set of big swinging brass ones to put your own bigotry onto those who care about their wells, and rural lifestyle.

     
  • School Mom posted at 10:28 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

    School Mom Posts: 57

    Sorry Dave, like my wine, I don't like my water tainted.
    I asked a question, that's all. Jerk.

     
  • Dave McRae posted at 10:31 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    Dave McRae Posts: 72

    The Smithsonian channel has a documentary of Sen. McCarthy and McCathyism. A very appropriate lesson to review for times like these.

     
  • Dave McRae posted at 10:29 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    Dave McRae Posts: 72

    I think it's time for School Mom to have another bottle of wine and write another rambling letter to the editor filled with thinly veiled religious bigotry. That last one to the Dispatch was a doozie! I still read that one and laugh at the drunken rambling and incoherence.


    BELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     
  • School Mom posted at 4:02 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    School Mom Posts: 57

    Is it true that plots for the cemetery are currently being sold in order to fund this project? A cemetery that hasn't even been approved yet????

    UNBELIEVABLE.

     
  • WillliamYancey posted at 1:03 pm on Thu, Aug 30, 2012.

    WillliamYancey Posts: 61

    One account for me.

    Not the case for you, Mister Bi-Polar

     
  • William Yancey posted at 8:59 am on Thu, Aug 30, 2012.

    William Yancey Posts: 8

    Thank you.

     
  • hypocrisyhater posted at 7:58 am on Thu, Aug 30, 2012.

    hypocrisyhater Posts: 234

    "HypocrisyhaLer"? [beam]

    Well played, Yancey-Boy. Well-played.

     
  • hypocrisyhaler posted at 1:09 pm on Mon, Aug 27, 2012.

    hypocrisyhaler Posts: 2

    I find it no more hilarious than a Buddhist Temple being built in rural Morgan Hill in 1967, that1scott.

     
  • hypocrisyhaler posted at 1:02 pm on Mon, Aug 27, 2012.

    hypocrisyhaler Posts: 2

    "I wonder what would happen if we went to their country." This IS their country. These people are American citizens and taxpayers.

     
  • that1scott posted at 12:02 pm on Mon, Aug 27, 2012.

    that1scott Posts: 3

    Aside from the politics and message board bashing going on back and forth on here, doesn't anyone else find it kind of hilarious that a mosque is being built in a cow-town? Kinda like waiving a French flag around in the middle of a Cinco De Mayo parade.

     
  • Gettin goog posted at 11:50 am on Mon, Aug 27, 2012.

    Gettin goog Posts: 50

    I wonder what would happen if we went to their country and tried to build "our church".. hummm .. Thinking we would all be dead at the question.
    America we are losing, and if you think I am wrong look around, the progression is slow but in time we will not be in control of this Country.
    Fight for what you beleive in, but also know that there will come a day if we don't stand up the US as we know it now will be gone.
    This is what they do.

     
  • raddler posted at 8:41 pm on Sun, Aug 26, 2012.

    raddler Posts: 97

    All religon is B.S. to me. The cause of alot of wars and misery. I would never build a house where I'd be a target or have to have 24 hour security. Consuelita is probably right its nothing but grazing land.

     
  • William Yancey posted at 11:09 am on Sat, Aug 25, 2012.

    William Yancey Posts: 8

    I am terribly concerned what conservative Muslims are doing halfway around the world. I have control over what those mental-cases do, as much as I enjoy their literature. I am not concerned about what religious extremists do in my own backyard. And, in America, it's infinitely more likely that Muslim extremists will do violence than middle eastern extremists will. Cry and moan about that reality as much as you look, but its just statistically true: Pro-Lifers do far more violence in this country than Muslims do. Now take your bigoted B.S. elsehwere

     
  • Build Green posted at 10:50 am on Sat, Aug 25, 2012.

    Build Green Posts: 15

    the only hate being spread is from the people throwing the word "bigot" around like its going out of style. so much for " My Muslim neighbors just want to live in peace and harmony". yah let them live in peace and harmony while you hate for them. [beam]

     
  • School Mom posted at 8:14 am on Sat, Aug 25, 2012.

    School Mom Posts: 57

    People who live near both the Mt. Hope cemetary and Gilroy's public cemetary are on city water. Stand with whomever you want to Estevio, just get your facts straight please. And both those cemetaries welcome anyone's deceased.

    When did it become chic to pave over rural areas? Doesn't anyone care anymore about open spaces, farming and the zoning laws that were put in place to keep San Martin rural-residential? Do we really need this kind of development? Next we'll have more cookie cutter housing tracts and strip malls that now permeate the U.S. No thank you.

     
  • fredoilveri posted at 10:48 pm on Fri, Aug 24, 2012.

    fredoilveri Posts: 53

    Wow, listening to the bigots, you'd think the parcel in question was a swamp. "Nothing grows accept hay on that parcel...actually rice may grow!" Hilarious.

     
  • Estiveo posted at 9:41 pm on Fri, Aug 24, 2012.

    Estiveo Posts: 3

    I'd much rather support and embrace my Muslim neighbors who have lived and worshipped here, peacfully, for many, many years, than give in to the mindless hate and fear of so-called "patriots" who would impose their own "christian" religious law on the rest of us.

    My Muslim neighbors just want to live in peace and harmony with the rest of us, and have a nice church/meeting center, just like any other church in America. Oh, and they'd like to have a cemetary too. Like St. Mary's in Gilroy. Nobody seems to worry about the water table with a Catholic bone yard. Or Mt. Hope in Morgan Hill...we're all on well water there...where's the worry?

    Hypocrits.

    My "patriot" neighbors seem to want to impose Leviticus on the rest of us. Fred Phelps would be proud of them.

    I'm just gonna go stand over there with my Muslim neighbors. They don't seem to hate and I'd bet the coffee is better.

     
  • consuelita posted at 6:07 pm on Fri, Aug 24, 2012.

    consuelita Posts: 1

    In 2007 Morgan Hill Times printed the article 'Mosque Plan Forges Ahead'. At that time SVIC.org boasted (and the Times printed the -magnificant 25,000 sq ft-) "Illustrated view of the Cordoba Center and Muslim Community Religious Affairs, and Interfaith project for the South Valley Islamic Community". SVIC provided the photo of the impressive establishment to be built atop the hill at the present site where they intend to finally build their religious institution. Supervisor -2007, Don Gage, said "if it meets land-use requirements it would be a social asset for South County".

    At that time, SVIC.org implied that the project was underway and they were soliciting donations for their project that included: a School, Convalescent home/Senior Living Facility, Auditorium and other facilities including a Bathing facility to cleanse their deceased prior to burial. Call me naive, but it never occured to me that a CEMETERY would be part of the grand scheme. However, when I just recently heard of this proposal, I could not imagine that Mr. Vidovich would lead his flock of fellow commissioners to vote in favor of such without taking heed of the recommendations of the planning advisors and the True Specialists...WE THE RESIDENTS & FARMERS OF SAN MARTIN.

    Ask any local old-timer about the water table and you'll get the facts. Nothing grows accept hay on that parcel...actually rice may grow! Back in the day, prune orchards definitely would not even grow. Water pools indefinitely in the winter from severe rains. Yet the city slicker news reporter from San Jose had the audacity of quoting his misinformed 'opinion' to my husband (a 65 yr resident of San Martin) that the water flows southeast..His source? The project manager for SVIC. Whereas, in fact, during heavy winter rains there is severe southwest flooding & the nearest well becomes artesianl (just next to the proposed site of the cemetery). Imagine, a CEMETERY: in the unincorporated community of San Martin where residents are SOLEY DEPENDENT UPON WELL WATER to bathe, drink, and irrigate crops. I assume the commissioners and Board of Supervisors were sworn to an oath to uphold the law to protect the citizens of SC County. I think that includes San Martin. One may hope that our elected officials will consider the input of the redneck San Martin residents (by the way, we do read and write, bathe and have teeth) But is seems that the rights and genuine concerns of local citizens are being overlooked.

    Because of the Integrated Design Plan for San Martin, which was established by the Santa Clara County Board of Supervisors, to protect this rural unincorporated community, the project was drastically downscaled and deemed acceptable to submit for permits to build. Someone has gone to great lengths to make sure the buildings resemble barns...who cares about that?

    SVIC's grand plan was intended (according to what they previously listed on their website) 'to serve the Greater Bay Area to San Benito County'. Now they are appealing the ruling of the Planning Commission...saying the two 2500 sq ft buildings and outdoor pavillion and bathroom are now not big enough?....Are they back to wanting to serve the Greater Bay area? And still, what about the CEMETERY?

    SVIC claims they are like any other church; so why do they need a permit for overnight stays for security? I do not know of a church who needs security. Could they hope to be granted additional permits so they can ultimately develop the Convalescent Home or Senior Living Center they mentioned previously?..in an area already proven to have inadequate perculation? The county previously advised against building or denied permits to: Morgan Hill Country School (now Oakwood), Shadow Mountain Baptist Church and School, the very nice owners of LucAmerica Fish distributers...to name three. So why is this project so different from those listed? There is no prejudice here...oh wait, maybe there is. Hmm, why did the county inform the Baptist church and Private School that the site was not buildable? Perhaps their First Ammendment Rights have been violated.

    Briefly, why is it against the law to bury your beloved family pet but it is perfectly acceptable to bury a body without a casket, 5' to 6' in the ground, in what is understood to be a 'flood zone' in the winter...in a community where ALL neighboring residents are dependent upon water from their wells? I believe the cemetery should be located in an urban city such as Gilroy or Morgan Hill since they have a sewer system. I voiced my question to someone affiliated with the county, and his answer was that the cemetery is not hooked up to it. Well of course not, they are not using the toilet~they are in fact dead. BUT the urban community bathes in and drinks treated water; NOT WELL WATER that will possibly become contaminated by Bacteria and Virus from decaying bodies.

    I was present at the public hearing on 8/2/12. The room was overflowing past the maximum capacity of 280 with standing room only. We each had one minute to speak. One SVIC supporter spoke of an apponent from Los Gatos who attended the meeting earlier in the week because of 'muslim-phobia'. Yet a supporter from Saratoga stated his opinion why the institution should be built. Now think about it, Mr. Los Gatos is prejudice, but Mr. Saratoga isn't? How rediculous. Ms. Bush, on behalf of SVIC, had the audacity to 'Demand' that the commissioners make a decision TODAY! What about the Brown Act? Aren't they supposed to listen to facts, discuss, then decide? AND DID I HEAR MR. VIDOVICH CORRECTLY? 'WHO CARES?" IF THE TOILET OVERFLOWS! What? Then he admitted that he doesn't attend church, yet he spoke as an authority on the fact that people use the toilet, go worship for an hour, then go home..."right?" he asked. Of course Mr. Akhter and Ms. Bush promptly answered a simple "yes". The whole point of SVIC having a community center and outdoor pavillion, Mr. Vidovich, is to hang around to visit with family and friends....and yes, use the toilet. Again, If there is inadequate percolation, WHAT ABOUT MY RIGHTS?


    At the conclusion of that meeting, I graciously turned to the gentleman to my left and welcomed him to San Martin; his gentle response was 'thank you'. The woman to my right had spoken of her rights to worship in San Martin, yet when I extended the same welcome to her she very indignantly replied "I don't even live there". The reality was that most of the 280+ present in that chamber did not live in the neighboring area either. Traffic is another concern IF those 280+ are traveling into San Martin. There is one entrance from Monterey Rd...just south of the bridge. Ah, but there is a solution...has SVIC purchased the adjoining parcel? In which case they can eventually have various routes in and out to the religious institution and cemetery from Monterey Road and/or California Ave.

    What I perceive is the following. 1) If for whatever reason one is not in favor of establishment of the Cordoba Center, one is deemed Prejudice or Muslim-Phobic. 2) At the second public meeting in Morgan Hill, one of the planners stated that when the project was given to them, they were told that they must abide by the "First Ammendment Rights" of the applicant. In other words...find a way to pass this?
    3) I am told that those who will worship at the Cordoba Center are loving, kind, peaceful people. I actually know, and like, one of the very sincere nice ladies who spoke. Mr. Sal Akhter, on the other hand, has used the phrase "fear monguer'--and continues to make dogmatic & negatively biased comments. If he is their representative, I have serious doubts about whether I am being lied- to-my face about all that they plan to offer our community.
    4) I do not believe for one moment that a cemetery is safe for the community of San Martin. SVIC spokespersons state they will drink the water. Since the Perchlorate contamination, we don't even drink the water. Again, our family are life-long residents here in San Martin; WHAT ABOUT OUR RIGHTS..and our HEALTH?

     
  • fredoilveri posted at 5:42 pm on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.

    fredoilveri Posts: 53

    The MH Times supports free speech.

     
  • raider13 posted at 4:18 pm on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.

    raider13 Posts: 23

    MH Times, do you know how to block IP addresses? If not I will come by and show you how.

     
  • fredoilveri posted at 1:24 pm on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.

    fredoilveri Posts: 53

    Why don't you post some more garbage about how Tara Romero deserved to die?

     
  • hypocrisyhater posted at 10:30 am on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.

    hypocrisyhater Posts: 234

    One account for me.

    Not the case for you, Mister Bi-Polar

     
  • fredoilveri posted at 10:22 am on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.

    fredoilveri Posts: 53

    hh, when you're reduced to talking to yourself on two different accounts, it's probably time to quit.

     
  • hypocrisyhater posted at 10:07 am on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.

    hypocrisyhater Posts: 234

    You missed the tragedy at Fort Hood?

    Not surprising, given the shooter was yelling Allah Akbar and squeezing off rounds into fellow American troops...on our own soil.

    They've already infiltrated.

    And people like you are accommodating it.

     
  • William Yancey posted at 9:01 am on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.

    William Yancey Posts: 8

    That's not what I meant. I agree with fake Fred. What is Fort Hood? Use real examples - don't make things up as you go...

     
  • hypocrisyhater posted at 8:34 am on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.

    hypocrisyhater Posts: 234

    To Yancey-Boy, 9-11 was a false flag.

    So was Fort Hood.

    Nothing to worry about, according to him.......

     
  • School Mom posted at 7:23 am on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.

    School Mom Posts: 57

    The appeal filed by the San Martin Neighborhood Alliance is an excellent and approprite statement representing the concerns of many of us who live in San Martin. I don't understand why those who are asking for the county to abide by the zoning laws created to keep San Martin rural- residential, are considered bigots. The fact remains that residents of San Martin rely on wells, and are at the mercy of the county for protection because we are uninicorporated.

    There are many homeowners here who love and appreciate their land, and work hard to improve it. There are also people here who do not abide by zoning codes and laws and the county does not have the bandwidth to force lawbreakers to comply. Knowing this, I don't have confidence in the county's ability to keep this project in compliance.

     
  • fredoilveri posted at 12:42 am on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.

    fredoilveri Posts: 53

    I'm not terribly concerned what conservative Muslims are doing halfway around the world. I have no control over what those mental-cases do, as much as I deplore their BS. I am conservative about what religious extremists do in my own backyard. And, in America, it's infinitely more likely that Christian extremists will do violence than Muslims extremists will. Cry and moan about that reality as much as you look, but its just statistically true: Christians do far more violence in this country than Muslims do. Now take your bigoted B.S. elsehwere.

     
  • Rikard Kilgaren posted at 10:11 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.

    Rikard Kilgaren Posts: 46

    Associated Press: "On Aug. 20, Pakistani police arrested an 11-year-old girl, known only by her first name, Ramsha, after accusations that she burned pages of the Koran, Islam's holy book. In Pakistan, it is a crime to utter derogatory statements or insult the Prophet Muhammad or the Koran in any way. Blasphemy convictions carry an automatic death sentence."

    Associated Press: "Pakistani authorities arrested a Christian girl and are investigating whether she violated the country's strict blasphemy laws after furious neighbors surrounded her house and demanded police take action, a police officer said Monday. The arrest of the girl and outrage among the local community demonstrates the deep emotion that suspected blasphemy cases can evoke in this conservative Muslim country, where rising extremism often means religious minorities live in fear of persecution."

    Pick your poison!

     
  • fredoilveri posted at 7:22 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.

    fredoilveri Posts: 53

    My favorite part of this manufactured controversy is that the right-wing bigots are trying to use government regulations (zoning ordinances, environmental regulations, etc.) to keep the mosque out, when on any other day of the week, they'd be decrying those same regulations as "nanny state regulations" or "burdens on business and landowners." It's so sickeningly transparent. No wonder they won't show their faces with their "People’s Coalition for Government Accountability." Still, what do you expect from a group of extremist cowards who take their cues from a white nationalist like Gavin Boby (this video is proudly displayed on the Gilroy/Morgan Hill Patriots facebook page): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXPbBcKY_p8

     
  • Frankie posted at 6:18 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.

    Frankie Posts: 11

    I think it would be lovely to have the mosque here. I met several people on the interfaith march and they where very kind with happy children. I would love some more diversity in the area and lets face it, San Martin really hasn't had a lot of new construction and it might inspire people to do a bit of sprucing up to keep up with the neighbors, which always improves property values. Everyone deserves to have a space to worship in their community. I do understand that some people travel but some are in the community already.

    The patriot groups make me sad, I am from a family where most of the members came from other countries, granted it was generations ago, and some of my family is native to this land. I love my country and I think the best thing about it is its great diversity. I love all the colors people come in and all the new ideas and the food. Maybe my brain just can't stick on a narrow limited course, it needs the joy of diversity. Maybe angry people just bore me, I am not sure but I for one am glad something new is happening and I can't wait to see that beautiful building.

     
  • fredoilveri posted at 1:22 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.

    fredoilveri Posts: 53

    Yeah, that's where you guys always go when one of your own snaps and kills people. The Knoxville Unitarian Church shooting? False flag. The Spokane MLK Parade bombing attempt? False flag. Byron Williams? False flag. Scott Roeder? False flag. The Sikh temple massacre? False flag. I understand, though, being that those aren't fringe elements of the movement, but is the movement itself. God forbid anyone peer behind the curtain, though.

     
  • Build Green posted at 1:11 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.

    Build Green Posts: 15

    will the real Fedoilveri please stand up. More likely you kind sir. more likely you. [wink]

     
  • fredoilveri posted at 12:41 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.

    fredoilveri Posts: 53

    More likely. since your brain ran in that direction, is it you who are planning a false-flag event. I listed a few luminaries that the Patriot movement has produced. If you're not familiar with their crimes, that's your problem. And, just as not everyone who goes off to an al-Qaeda training camp will wind up committing any violence, nor will everyone who joins a Patriot group wind up doing violence. But we still call them terrorists, and rightly so. Don't want to be considered a terrorist? Don't join al-Qaeda or the Patriot Movement. Simple.

     
  • Build Green posted at 12:06 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.

    Build Green Posts: 15

    Terrorist - a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.

    Terrorism - the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

    What has this group done? What violent act or acts are they claiming as works of their group? It’s true that many so called "Patriot" groups are being watched by the FBI. The same with Churches, Christian and Muslim. Heck I bet the FBI is watching both sides of floor on this issue. If they are spreading lies then that action certainly doesn’t warrant the banner of “Terrorist” group you so unwittingly throw around fine sir. Maybe you are planning a false flag event. I’ve seen it done during the whole Prop 8 debate. Groups were vandalizing their own property and placing the blame on the competition. They were caught.

     
  • fredoilveri posted at 2:01 am on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.

    fredoilveri Posts: 53

    Here are some lies that the Gilroy/Morgan Hill Terrorists are posting about the Cordoba House on their website:

    SVIC (South Valley Islamic Center) Comes Out Of The Closet

    Three appeals were filed Friday August 17th in conjunction with the controversial “Cordoba Center” mosque, school and cemetery approved for construction in San Martin CA. Did the media forget to mention these? Two were from San Martin resident groups citing numerous code and ordinance violations, and the third oddly enough was filed by the South Valley Islamic Center (SVIC) itself.

    SVIC is finally coming out of the closet and showing its true colors. At the August 2nd Planning Commission meeting, Commissioner John Vidovich nearly fell over backwards waiving as many restrictions as he possibly could. It appears SVIC took their queue from Vidovich and filed the third appeal asking for everything but the kitchen sink. Apparently these people feel that pesky codes and ordinances protecting the residents and environment, along with required calculations for septic and percolation tests don’t pertain to them. The fact that others, including another religious organization, weren’t able to build on the property due to high water tables and environmental issues doesn’t seem to matter either.

    For a planning commissioner, Vidovich doesn’t seem to grasp the concept that septic systems are designed to work based on occupancy and frequency calculations as required by law. Either that or he doesn’t care. Oh yeah, he did mention that at the August 2nd meeting while confirming that the county violates people’s private property rights. “If their septic system is working and they have a hundred people there, who cares?” There’s even a You Tube video floating around verifying Vidovich’s words. http://www.youtube.co...

    In the August 16th appeal, “SVIC is asking to remove or modify” specific conditions of their use permit. They claim the county’s calculations for the current septic “are not based on any factual data” and as such, we should throw out that data. I agree. But at the same time they want the Board of Supervisors to increase their capacity and occupancy to 150! Who cares if this violates county codes or goes against the required calculations for septic usage? SVIC wants the B.O.S. to wave there magic wand and deem the septic system able to handle a capacity of up to 150 people, and “on any given day” no less. You never know when 70 close mosque goers might want to stop by to pee and pray. Why get stuck with 80 when you can get 150?

    And the porta potty scam they were proposing to use when more than 80 occupants dropped by is apparently also too cumbersome. They feel it would “simplify the conditions of approval for both the use permit and Architecture and Site Approval” if we just allowed up to 150 people on site. Why not, since it’s not based on any factual data?

    But wait, there’s more! They want “the removal of this burdensome condition potentially requiring SVIC to obtain Temporary Event Permits for the limited three (3) single-day events”. And while you’re at it can you strike no overnight accommodations or change it add no “commercial” overnight. Hmm, do the toilets understand the difference between “commercial” and regular overnight usage? Someone should explain it to them.

    And for the coupe de grace, let’s replace the 2,000 sq ft building with a 5,000 sq ft one. Wow, no one saw that one coming. Not! Can you say special interests?!!

    What’s ironic is that SVIC is asking the BOS to commit fraud. They want the BOS to state “the septic system is adequate to serve a population of 150 persons per day maximum, not 80” based on “previously submitted tests and studies conducted for this project”. Ok. So we know D.E.H. along with County Counsel have confirmed the 2006 percolation test failed, even though Batz environmental, the applicant’s consultant submitted documents stating otherwise. Isn’t that called fraud? Even the new soil tests conducted the day after the planning hearing reaffirm, “The soil profile match the previous soil profiles performed in 2006.” So we agree with SVIC, these conditions are not based on any factual data.

    Guess we the people are supposed to play dumb and not say anything. So while the true colors of SVIC are being revealed, what will be discussed are not the dangers these deviations pose to San Martin residents or the falsifications and blatant disrespect of law. What will and is being stated is how people who reveal these inconvenient facts are intolerant of a religious organization. Yep, a religious organization that is pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes in order to skirt the law and get whatever they can. Wake up America.

    Georgine Scott-Codiga

     
  • Dave McRae posted at 7:54 pm on Tue, Aug 21, 2012.

    Dave McRae Posts: 72

    I posted their contact info on the dispatch site. In case they need to be interviewed for the story. There must be more to it than this.

     
  • fredoilveri posted at 7:13 pm on Tue, Aug 21, 2012.

    fredoilveri Posts: 53

    If you want to know who's behind The People’s Coalition for Government Accountability, just check out these websites:

    http://www.meetup.com/Gilroy-Morgan-Hill-Patriots/

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Gilroy-Morgan-Hill-Patriots/116880481724689